The Rebel

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Posts by The Rebel

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  6

  David Ackles. ( find your heart and loose it)

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how about a thread on underrated musicians, or underrated bands most of us might not have experienced.

  personally i love discovering new musical talent i missed.. the rebel..

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  The Rebel

  T Rex.

  listen to the song " 20th Century Boy" with Marc Bolan on vocals.

  Who even remembers Marc Bolan? dead aged 29. ( car crash)

  The Rebel.
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  20

  If God exists ....

  by iconoclastic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if god exists, he must be a god of freedom.

  because he has endowed us with free-will, and never interferes with it (as confirmed by our own experiences).

  that means he wants everyone to make their choice and reap the fruits accordingly.

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  The Rebel

  Another example would be the bible story of Adam. If he was created perfect as the J.Ws teach, then how could he do anything imperfect?

  Is the answer really because of free will?

  I would say if Adam was born with " free will" then he could not be created " perfect" because if he was created perfect he could not do anything imperfect?

  How as J.Ws did we reconcile this.....Oh who cares, I have decided i have more important things in my life to be concerned about, and it's not worth arguing about.....

  The Rebel

  
  
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  20

  If God exists ....

  by iconoclastic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if god exists, he must be a god of freedom.

  because he has endowed us with free-will, and never interferes with it (as confirmed by our own experiences).

  that means he wants everyone to make their choice and reap the fruits accordingly.

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  The Rebel

  Inconclustic.

  My point is we are not free to do what ever we want.

  A direct example would be " do you have it within yourself to commit the crime of rape?

  I would suggest a high % of the population, simply could not do this, because it is not within themselfs to do this.

  So I believe it is not a question of free will.

  The Rebel.
• 
  20

  If God exists ....

  by iconoclastic in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if god exists, he must be a god of freedom.

  because he has endowed us with free-will, and never interferes with it (as confirmed by our own experiences).

  that means he wants everyone to make their choice and reap the fruits accordingly.

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  The Rebel

  Are people really born with free will?

  Let's take RAPE as an example.

  Now we have laws as a deterrent because many people given the opportunity would rape. But also many who under-no-circumstances could rape. It is simply not within them selfs to rape another human being.

  The above is to illustrate the limitations to our free-will. If you think about it, there are just so many things we do not have free-will over, because we were not born with the capacity to do or not do the things.

  Therefore we need to be careful not to rush to judgement and judge. ( I learnt that by living under the control of the Watchtower, and witnissing how it discarded members who did not meet their understanding of sin and free-will)

  So to answer the O.P i do not believe we were created by a God with free-will, because I am aware that I am very restricted to what free-will does and does not allow me to do.

  The Rebel.
• 
  42

  i feel more confused than ever

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well i know i've been posting a lot of topics like this lately and i'm sorry if i sound whiny or annoying.

  my parents were asking me why i was so upset lately and i ended up just telling them the whole truth.

  i told them i don't believe in god or the bible because i don't have any evidence of anything.

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  The Rebel

  You do want you think is right?

  i think many families put pressure on children, and most families do this because they want what they think best for the child they love.

  Nobody has the right to make you be or do anything you don't want to be. Be who you want to be.....and with time, if you make your parents proud or not, we should all learn to accept our loved ones for who they are.

  The Rebel.
• 
  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  The Rebel

  Viviane in view of your last comment, and yesterday's deleted photos, and today's pictures from " Oubliette" I have decided this will be my last post on this thread.

  Anyway I believe there are little gems of information on this thread, which were contributed by informed posters, these posts I will print out and am very grateful for.

  I am also grateful that this thread challenged me to spent hours on the internet researching the subject.

  finally from what I learnt I am now inclined to believe man did land on the moon. ( I wish I could send a few to the moon :-)

  The Rebel
• 
  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  The Rebel

  Pondering that deep philosophical question, I would suggest it implies the woodcutter ( wood chuck) should pay attention to the main task, and complete it to the best of his ability.

  i would suggest like the woodcutter we should pay attention to our main task which is discussing " Did man land on the moon" and associated questions, which could indirectly become relevant to the debate. And like the woodcutter we try to complete this task to the best of our ability, and perhaps most importantly by respecting each other's abilities and opinions.

  The Rebel.
• 
  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  The Rebel

  Should we get involved in debates that pertain to unprovable facts?

  Well I believe yes, because the answers exist, but maybe the question doesn't. Or questions can be raised new to us which help us find answers that do exist.

  So I believe each question that has been raised, is productive to constructive discussion, and in fact a discussion in which we all ought to be able to make some contribution to.

  Admitadly the internet is a maze of information, the worlds biggest bookshop and largest Libary, so a subject can easily be researched with out a debating forum. But to me their is something infinitely more rewarding, learning and being educated in friendship and the cross pollinating of thoughts on a debating forum.

  This is even more true when it's a forum on a religion we all have in common, which is updated daily, and includes a diversity of different topics.Personally I have enjoyed checking in each morning on the events in Australia, it's been enlightening,

  on another note, I have found a certain strength of character having to defend myself, against innuendo and unwarranted personal attacks. I have also learnt it is wrong of me to rush to judgement, or to assume the intellect, age, or nationality of fellow posters. That we are all more than dots on a computer screen and should be treated with respect.

  As we read each other's words, and we express our opinions, i realise we cannot understand what each other may presume, and what we presume also may not be the correct picture. So my advise is rather than become offensive simply leave a thread if it challenges you to break post guidelines.

  There is a big difference between knowing and understanding.

  The Rebel.
• 
  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  The Rebel

  Was it worth the money?

  Well no one can refute the technological legacy of the Apollo programme which trickled down to the public,a quick research discovered and includes heat resistant materials, the cordless vacuum cleaner and freeze drying.

  So was it worth the money ? a survey conducted on behalf of E&T tecnology, concluded 40% thought the Apollo programme a waste of money.However i wonder what further space exploration, and scientific advancement, but for the cost of the Iraq war? Which according to a report in the New York, newspaper, has cost 1.7 trillion dollars, plus additional billions in benefits owed to veterans. And killed 134,000 Iraq civilians.

  So yes indeed maybe the Apollo programme was worth every scent, who knows by inspiring a whole new generation of scientists, we may indeed save our planet in the future.

  The Rebel
• 
  579

  Won't get fooled again ...Moon Landing.

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was fooled by the witnesses.

  what can i learn from that?

  not to accept things at face value but to seek out opinion and different view points.. hence my question " do you believe man landed on the moon?.

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  The Rebel

  Friends:-Never mind about the insulting pictures, let's move on.

  I think one of the reasons this thread has raised so much passion, is that we are not only debating whether man landed on the moon, we are debating history, and that history should be a reliable guide for the future. Is that your opinion also?

  Moon Speeches and how they could have effected history.

  President Kennedy:- " We choose to go to the moon, in this decade and do other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"

  comment. I wonder had the president not been assassinated would congress have been willing to spend billions going to the moon? Anyway it made a great legacy for a dead and very popular former president. ( I personally believe Russian involvement and the Cold War contributed to funding)

  This speech you may not be aware exists, it could be seen as supporting a moon landing:-

  In Event of Moon Disaster:- " Fate has ordained that the men who went to the moon to explore in peace will stay on the moon to rest in peace.... )Part of a speech Nixon would have given had Armstrong and Aldrin got stuck on the moon.)

  And the most famous speech:-

  Neil Armstrong " That's one small step for man and one giant leap for mankind" according to Armstrongs brother, this speech was prepared and he actually said " That's one small step for " A" man , (A) the missing indefinite article in the transmission.

  TALESIN:/ Thankyou for your comment, I and I think a lot of people would agree with you.:- TO DEFICIT INFINITY AND BEYOUND :-)

  THE REBEL.